The Anime Thread (Serious.) Spoilers, usually.

jjjynx

Simple and Serious. okay not so serious....but more serious than what we've been doing on the other anime board.

Every week, or rather every few days...I will start discussion on some ongoing or completed anime series, something that'll encourage some to watch newer/older ones, and something for us to actually discuss about. And questions, answers can all be gathered here...it's better than having seperate threads for different anime that dies as frequently as it is started...randomness is approved here, opinions can be given, but please no sudden randomness of sort that'll bring confusion and magic and mayhem.

So for a start...I'll go on with the anime that this boaard was named after.

The First Discussion On Serious Business Among Cowboy Bebop's Who How Why What and When.

Seriously speaking, I loved it as a whole, a great story with interesting characters, most interesting being Spike, of course. But there's another main character that was pratically the center of at least one third of the story. Julia. But she got wiped out in two episode...now's the question...What would you have done if you were Spike? And what was the mistake that Spike made to cause Julia's death?

personally I'd have taken things right back to Jet's instead of Annie's...I do not know what's with Julia's mind...since for a person that drives so well, I see no reason why she couldn't take care of herself if she could survive all those gunshots serveral months before....unless she never got shot at when she was escaping.

Which makes me wonder...why did they even go to Annie's in the first place?

GrinfilledCelt · Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:59 am Post subject:

Cowboy Bebop...what should I say. This one has been thrashed over here and else where for years. It's still my favorite anime, although I don't watch it much anymore. It's the high standard to which I hope to find more anime to measure up to. I can only find minor, piddling little things to criticize about it.

There isn't any "most interesting" character for me. All of the main characters, and many of the minor ones, are very interesting to me. As I have said before, they could make a whole series based on the three old guys, Carlos, Anthony and Jobim.

What would I have done if I were Spike when Julia got killed? I would have probably fallen apart and gotten myself killed with her. That's probably why they didn't cast me as Spike. Blue_PDT_01_01

Except for the falling apart bit, that's more or less what Spike did. I don't think he intended to walk out of there alive.

I can't say as Spike made a mistake that got Julia killed. I was going to say that getting back in touch with her was a mistake, but they were already after her anyway and Spike was probably her best bet for getting out alive.

Spike went to Annie's for two reasons. One, Spike didn't want to get Jet and the others any more involved than they already were, especially because Jet had said that he didn't want to get involved. He had warned Spike that they should just pack up and get the hell out of there, but Spike wanted to go get Julia. Second, Annie was an arms dealer (the store was just a front) and Spike went there to get some serious ordinance from someone he could trust (That's why he went there the first time too). Even at that point, he wasn't planning on running away. Spike knew that if he ran off with Julia, leaving Vicious in control of the Dragons, that they would be hunted down and killed no matter where they went. He wanted to take Vicious down before he could consolidate his power. If he waited, he would have had no chance of getting anywhere near Vicious. Julia realised he wasn't going to run when she saw Spike loading up and said so at the time, just before the bad guys showed up.

Steven Den Beste (http://denbeste.nu/Chizumatic/) made the best criticism of the show that I have ever heard and I have to agree with him. He said that he cannot recommend the show because the ending is like getting punched in the gut and getting punched in the gut is no fun.

Now I have a question. In the last episode, just as Spike reaches the top floor where Vicious is waiting for him, there is an explosion that blows the roof right off of the building. WTF? Who did that and why?
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Songs for the flash frozen.

jjjynx · Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:43 am Post subject:

Indeed, that was a question I've not yet answered myself. I am referring to the explosion. I'm guessing Rin...or was it Lin? did it though. It exploded right after he died, and he seemed to be the only person given enough time to plant them, unless of course Spike was weird enough to plant them 5 years ago.

As for Spike and Julia and Jet. What I'm looking here is a Jet that would complain, yet still save a friend if he comes looking for help...and I see no reason why Jet wasn't as much trusted as Annie, if it was the second place he turned to after Julia died. Perhaps, just perhaps...Annie was a better friend than Jet is...if we ever knew what happened before.

GrinfilledCelt · Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject:

That's a good theory about the explosion and the best one I have ever heard.
When I asked elswhere, I got some lame thing about how they did it so that they could pan up into the sky after Spike died. It was Rin. Lin died in Jupiter Jazz Pt II. It makes sense. Rin didn't like Vicious being in control of the Dragons and may well have set up a deadman switch to take Vicious out if he died. He botched the job though and it blew the roof off instead of collasping it.

I think you're a bit confused. Spike did go back to the Bebop after Julia died. Annie died before Julia, but not by much though. The reason, as I said before, that they went to Annie's was to get guns and explosives which Jet didn't have. Also, perhaps, Spike wanted to save Annie, too. Maybe Spike wanted to get Julia and Annie to the Bebop before going after Vicious. Jet was just that kind of friend. Sure, he complained, but in spite of the danger (the Bebop had already been attacked), he didn't pack up and leave when Spike left, he waited for him to come back.

Ah, this thread is making me sad. Blue_PDT_01_13

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Songs for the flash frozen.

jjjynx · Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:04 am Post subject:

Oh dear, if this makes you sad what happens when we start on GunGrave?

And a few more notes on Bebop to take care of before we switch topic.

I'm wondering if a pun was intended when Spike said "bang" in the end.

What I remembered most clearly off Bebop was the chessmaster episode and the episode where Eien and Ed left...most propably because Ed seems amazing at chess, almost madly amazing, and Ed's dad since Radical enough to be her dad.

For that round killing machine, it is a wonder why no one is at the carnivle they were at, even though it was shut down...perhaps the guards got took out or something. And it still makes me wonder why bullets can't get him, yet knifes can.

GrinfilledCelt · Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:01 am Post subject:

Talking about GunGrave wont make me sad. I only have the first episode of that one and I couldn't even tell you if I've watched it.

What pun when Spike said "bang"?

The guards at the theme park must have been killed by Perroit. If they had just run off, they would have called in the cops to save their jobs. They never bothered to explain Perroit's personal energy shield. Perhaps a thrown knife didn't have enough kinetic energy to trigger the shield.

Where is everyone else? Why are jjjynx and I the only ones talking here?
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Songs for the flash frozen.

jjjynx · Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:53 am Post subject:

The last question, I have absolutely no answer to.

As for the term "To go down with a Bang"...I was thinking of that.

Hungry Mongoose · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:39 am Post subject:

IronPoke · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:20 am Post subject:

I'll contribute, if I may. spoiler

Spike's 'Bang!': Simply a final act of defiance against a world that never showed him any love. He was going down, he faced insurmountable odds against the syndicate waiting at the bottom of the stairs, his love was dead... knowing his 'Don't Bother None' attitude, all Spike could do was look his fate square in the eye, smile that wry, crooked grin, and crack a final joke before oblivion took him. To me, it was totally a Spike thing to do. I just realized that this doesn't even answer your question.

Yes, perhaps Spike was 'going out with a bang', but I thought the idea was not so much a pun as much as it was the final exclamation point on Spike's existence.

The roof exploding: I thought that Spike loves grenades (refer to Ballad of Fallen Angels). Thus, I thought that the roof's top being blown off was simply Spike kicking a grenade out the elevator door. That whole action sequence from his entering the building onward seemed way too shortened in my opinion. Sure, it did not contribute much to plot movement and such, but it made the ending feel as though it were rushing headlong straight into you at a much faster rate than you would feel comfortable with. The roof exploding is just another example. We don't see how it happened but don't even have much time to wonder why as the final showdown has then just been thrust into our faces.

Spike's Star: Earlier in the series we hear that each time someone dies, their star dies too. I thought it interesting to note that Spike's death coincided almost perfectly with the death of a star in the sky... however, that star's death did not happen at the time of Spike's death. Light takes time to travel and the nearest star to ours here in the Solar System is 4 lightyears away. What we saw was the death of a star that took place at least 4 years before Spike's demise. Therefore, we saw Spike die just as the final rays of light of a distant star reached the Solar System. How interesting, considering that it was 4 years (or so) earlier that Spike stopped living, and started watching a dream. My theory is that Spike had long since been dead since Julia tore up that note years earlier and broke his heart. Fate was just catching up to him by the time his star's final rays shined their light on his still form on those steps. This may have been spoken of elsewhere, but I have never heard it talked about before. I at least thought it an interesting idea worth some consideration.
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Mugen Rocket!!!

jjjynx · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject:

You outdo yourself Poke...that was one of the most interesting concept I've heard for Spike's Star. It's worth considering within ourselves, but I can see the look on the bunch of other random idiot's face out in the other boards I've been through...

But as far as Spike's star is concerned, my guess is they didn't really gave too much thought on it...it (your concept) is most probably a coincidence of what they wanted us (The viewers) to expect, and most likely not think, about when the star was going to fall.

And finally, as far as I'm concerned....is Faye Singaporean? And they never really went that deep into her history...besides the accident and the sleep, and her running about from debts...we never knew what she liked, what she disliked, and what friend she'd known, unlike Spike and Jet, whom we saw old friends and learnt more of their characters of. Ed's an exception, she's Radical.

GrinfilledCelt · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject:

jjjynx · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject:

Okay then...since there isn't anymore contents being added I'm concluding this session of Bebop till next time (probably next year.) Anyone's free to add anything concerning Bebop within the next one week, otherwise it'll be time to discuss another anime.

But before I start I'd Like knowledge of the number of people that have watched these two animes I'm going to state in our next conversation...so that we can have more people talking their views...than what happened to Bebop.

the Choices for these few days will be of completed series as well...(I'm guessing based on popularity)...so:

Twelve Kingdoms
Last Exile

okay so maybe I should add one more...let's see....hmmm.....erm.....oh yes.....

Hellsing

Hungry Mongoose · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:42 pm Post subject:

I've only seen Hellsing of those. Don't know if it's the best choice for discussion though.

Damn, I really have missed out on a lot of anime.
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PARTY TIME.

swollenlymphnodes · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject:

12 Kingdoms and Last Exile are must-sees for any anime fan. I watched only one episode of Hellsing.
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PDT_Zamourai_11

eh?
*Eternally Lurking*

GrinfilledCelt · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject:

I haven't seen any of those. They're all on my list though. Perhaps we should have a "What Every Otaku Should Have Seen" thread?
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Songs for the flash frozen.